A French "news" agency reveals its proof that Americans fired at an innocent Iraqi woman's home. There's just one little problem.
A couple of weeks ago, the French "news" service AFP caused more than a few chuckles in the blogosphere for publishing a photo of an Iraqi woman holding two unspent cartidges she claimed had been fired at her home by US troops.
Remember: They were unspent, meaning that the only way that those "bullets" could have hit her house would be if somebody threw them at her.
The dissident frogman decided to instruct his fellow cheese eating surrender monkeys on the operation of firearms, recognizing that most of his countrymen have more experience laying down their arms than firing them.
Link here.
28 comments:
I love the picture. Some more education is in order.
The cartridge on the left appears to be NATO US manufactured 7.62x51 ball. The one on the right is its civilian analog .308 Win. and probably of European manufacture. Examine the bullet seating, bullet shape and shoulder shape and you'll see there's a difference. Mass produced civilian ammunition has the bullet seated deeper in the case neck to accommodate the wide variety of gun chamber throat configurations. Virgin civilian cases also have more rounded shoulder for a similar reason (chamber shape).
US Military ammunition has the bullet seated higher to accommodate a different powder load and higher chamber pressure.
US Military ball ammunition always has the darker copper colored jacket as the one on the left does. Civilian ammunition often has a more lustrous and harder "brassy" alloy jacket to reduce barrel fouling.
I am also somewhat suspicious of the picture elements. We may be looking at a Photoshop job. Note the cartridge on the left is in sharp focus and the one on the right is slightly fuzzy. The reflection patterns on the two cases are also significantly different. This is especially prominent on the case necks. On the right, it shows strong lighting from both sides. The left is only lit from one side.
In any case, as has been pointed out, these are unfired cartridges. The US Army only uses 7.62 ammunition in two weapon types; machine gun (in which case, these would have to have fallen out of a linked belt) and sniper weapons. I really doubt a sniper would be hosing down a house. If it had been a machine gun at work, there would have been PLENTY of empties to show.
Reminds me of the Green Helmet Guy. Do you think this Iragi woman is the same person as this woman? http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/2667/2002123773065430416_rs.jpg
Barenjager, I agree. Although the one on the left looks a little like 5.56 NATO ball to me, and the one on the right kinda looks like 7.62x39 (i.e. AK-47 ammo).
I don't imagine the grunts haul around the big, heavy M240 machine guns that use 7.62 NATO if they are going to be kicking in doors, just M4s and SAWs. I would think the M240s are confined to Humvees and static defenses.
I thought they might be 7.62 x 39s at first, too. I looked again after reading your post and I'm meekly sticking with 7.62 x 51 but I wouldn't bet more than a case of beer on it.
You'd be surprised at the crazy things a guy will carry when he's going into the crap. At one point I was known to have an M-203, .41 Blackhawk (8"), CZ-50 and a couple of blades in my carry config. Thanks to my size, my PSG decided I should get to strap the AN/PRC-77 onto my pack to round out the ensemble. This was in part because I was the only one that could read a CEOI and CaC up an intelligible message in under 10 minutes...Including the stinkin' LT. It was a happy day when they let me trade in the 203 for an M-3 (.45 SMG "Grease Gun"). My favorite was the Blackhawk. It was reliable out to about 50 meters and if someone got within arm's reach, it made a hell of a club.
If that is 7.62x39, it is very shiny. Most of the Sov rounds I've seen, like one would expect to find in Iraq, have a dull unpolished brass casing with a copper jacketed, lead core bullet. But then again, it could just be the flash.
So are you also some kind of gun nut that thinks everyone for gun control is a communist and anti-American?
Hector,
One doesn't have to be a gun "nut" to understands the reason the constitution was amended to provide the RIGHT of gun ownership. Along with rights go responsibiities. One of those responsibilities is to preserve the rights guaranteed by the constitution. You can't do that without a credible response to oppressive government and the ability to defend yourself against lowlifes.
If you're dead, you can't fight for your rights or those of your fellow citizens.
Baren,
"I am also somewhat suspicious of the picture elements. We may be looking at a Photoshop job. Note the cartridge on the left is in sharp focus and the one on the right is slightly fuzzy. The reflection patterns on the two cases are also significantly different. This is especially prominent on the case necks. On the right, it shows strong lighting from both sides. The left is only lit from one side."
I noted the same things. It does sort of suggest that someone who doesn't know squat about firearms photoshopped this one together.
As for the rounds themselves, they look like 5.56mm to me, too. If they were photoshopped in, the would-be trickster probably didn't think to resize them from the source photos, making them out of scale in the photo. It's that the bullet, neck and case body are not roughly equal that makes me suspect it's a pair of 5.56 rounds:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/docgkr/myhomepage/SPC_trials.jpg
It is not 7.62x39. I know because I fire surplus russian ammo all the time. The rounds she is holding does not look like .223 rounds.... I have not fired the AK-74 but it does kind of look like 5.56.
I do believe gun control is anti-american and those who think it are some how bred between a retard and a jackass.
Here is some more info for your file on me Hector:
1. I worked for a while at NRA headquarters.
2. I am an NRA member and attended the NRA convention in Seattle a few years back.
3. I was very active with several pro-Second Amendment organizations when I lived in Virginia, at least as active as I am on the Wal-Mart issue now.
4. There is hardly anything I like better than putting rounds downrange with a finely crafted firearm, from .22 to 20 mm, single shot to full auto.
5. I have attended the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot, arguably one of the most politically incorrect events in the U.S.
6. I once owned an AK-47, with *gasp* a folding stock, pistol grip, 30 round magazine, AND a bayonet lug.
Hector: Yes.
Just wondering: Why would anybody go to the trouble of Photoshopping that picture when it would be so easy to just pose the shot - as AFP apparently did.
And, to Hector314 and the other 313 or so Hectors, April is right.
So when do you start prosecuting those who disagree with you and sending them to prison camps, Joe McCarthy?
Huh? Please give more detail.
Oh, and just to be fair, Joe McCarthy was right. There was a Communist movement and the Communists haven't stopped trying to end individual freedom in America. Now Hector knows how I feel and he can post from here.
Hrm... taking a look again at the photo, and more on the lighting... look at the lighting on the rounds versus the woman's fingers. She wasn't holding those rounds, period. No way.
We're not prosecuting you Hector314. We're laughing at you.
Hector,
You really should step back and think before speaking. You obviously don't know most (or any?) of the people you address in this forum. You have no basis to gauge or understand the context from which we respond to your bombastic posts. Your continued escalation of rhetoric and intentional irritation of the people you address is immature and not well reasoned.
No one ever suggested any of the things you accuse us of. It is you who are behaving as a "nut" and who should look a little deeper within to examine your personal motivations and the basis of your beliefs.
So, Hector; Are you against private gun ownership? If so, why? Please don't burden us with trite slogans or extracts from longwinded and irrelevant manifestos. Please tell us why, deep down in your core, you believe Americans should not own guns. Then please tell us how you would go about replacing the protective power held by an armed citizenry.
I agree with S.M. they are not 7.62x39. Not tapered enough and the bullet is to small in proportion to the case. Most Warsaw Pac rounds are steel cased-copper washed not brass causing the dull finish Tom mentioned. They look like 5.56 to me.
To Hector666 - Gun ownership is American as guaranteed by our founding fathers. Also guaranteed is that you can"t be prosecuted for your personal beliefs but I woundn"t look for a lot of invitations for beer & bar-b-que.
Uncle Bubba, you and I are going to have go expend some of that Russian steel-cased 7.62x39 some time.
Tom and UB, I probably owe you guys a beer. These rounds are likely 5.56 and not 7.62 but just as with the 7.62, differences between military and civilian rounds exist (in fact, the same differences). So, there; I owe me a beer too.
Tom and baren -
Sounds like a beer & bar-b-que event in the making!
You know it always surprizes people like Hector that everyday American citizens really do own guns and ammunition.
I have a buddy who has his own 100 yard rifle range that we could use. What better appetizer for a barbecue that to burn up a few boxes of ammo?
Michael, could you talk to your buddy about it? I have been wanting to have another Palousitics get together to commemorate the new semester starting and all the new people coming on board. We might be looking at up to 30 or more people attending.
E-mail me offline if you get details.
I've got a bunch of 7.62x39 that ought to be sent downrange. I haven't fired my SKS in a loooooong time. Maybe my .30-06 could stand for a dusting off, too.
One of my roommates is taking the hunter safety course right now (with Joe... what's his last name?). He probably wouldn't mind the opportunity to put a few rounds through his recently acquired Romanian AK-47 or perhaps his K98 Mauser.
This may seem strange, I think I'm the only contributer who doesn't own a firearm ;-( .... But my wife does and so do all three of my boys (at least 2 firearms each).
It's ok, Bruce. I'll loan you one of mine if Tom puts a shooting event together.
Yep, details will be forthcoming on another Palousitics event.
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