The Queen has handsomely rewarded all of her political cronies that helped steal the 2004 election: big labor, the educracy, treehuggers, etc. One final royal nod now to the folks who pushed her over the top for good in the vote count.
They should put Commisar Gregoire in jail with the rest of the Washinton state legislature for that budget they just passed. Hell, most of the 2004 Gregoire votes in King county came from felons and the dead.
It would seem that if want democrats to stop complaining about the 2000 presidential election then you should stop complaining about the 2004 gubernatorial election.
Rabble-rousing as usual truth. I can complain about the 2004 election all I want. I did not complain about the 2000 election because I did not vote either democrat or republican. If you would like to complain about elections here in the USA, I know many cases of election fraud through out U.S. history. I you do not like my posts, do not read them.
"I can complain about the 2004 election all I want. I did not complain about the 2000 election because I did not vote either democrat or republican."
I never said you couldn't, just pointing out a possible hypocrisy to everybody here who complains about the 2004 election and then gets upset when people complain about the 2000 election.
As for this "rabble rousing" (defined here as "an instance or the practice of stirring up the passions or prejudices of the public" - dictionary.com), I simply wanted to point out the potential for hypocriscy. A better example of rabble rousing is referring to Christine Gregoire as "The Queen", when no monarchy exists in the State of Washington, or the United States for that matter.
Oh, this is rich. More than one sqare tissue of rich. This may take the entire roll.
1. After all these years, GW won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the left- wingers. Or do you have some other ballots that you have miraculously found?
2. It took found ballots under every bed, in every trunk, weekly and daily discoveries of ballots to "win" Queen Christine her place.
Dems couldn't quite cheat enough in the national election, but on a local level, we were a cake walk. You will also win the state constitutional amendment, requiring a super-majority for school votes. Not surprising, considering that "new voters" can now register and vote at the same time, limiting the time to conduct checks and balances by our local voting board. And God help us if the questionable voters are not white or American. Those of us who question the new voters will be painted as racist or worse. (oops, did I say white? Ten lashes for me!)
Whitman County is too small to fight the complications that the national politicos present. However, face them we must.
"After all these years, GW won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the left- wingers. Or do you have some other ballots that you have miraculously found?"
And after all these years Gregoire has won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the right-wingers.
"It took found ballots under every bed, in every trunk, weekly and daily discoveries of ballots to "win" Queen Christine her place."
And it took a conservative-dominated Supreme Court to stop the recount in Florida.
All I am saying is that there are definetivly similarities between the two elections (as much as neither side wishes to admit it), and it is time for both Democrats and Republicans to let go of past elections.
Oh, and yes, how terrible that people (including Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.)can now register and vote at the same time. I mean, why would we want to extend democracy?
Yes! Why not vote as a vistor? Why not vote as a bussed in activist? As a one world government, why not vote as one? Where can I make sure my vote is counted in another "soveriegn" country?
April, I think you know as well as I do that there are you still have to prove you are a resident of where you live (via drivers-licenses) and they do still check the voter registrations. And realistically, do you have any facts to back up your claims that "visitors" and "bussed in activists" will be coming in droves to affect elections, or is it simply more "rabble-rousing"?
But to go back to the main point of this comment thread, don't you think its time to put past elections behind us?
And after all these years Gregoire has won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the right-wingers.
That is incorrect. She won the last recount when out of thin air, a thousand ballots out of King county appeared. Edwards fronted her the money for the recount but when she stole the election, the state gave back the money to Edwards.
Yes, how dare she follow the state constitution and demand the hand recount. I am of course certain that had Rossi lost the 1st recount he would not have demanded a second one.
Both candidates were in the same boat, had the roles been switched they both would have done the same thing.
As proof of that (and as proof that Gregoire did in fact win the election) I offer up this fact. After all the recounts Rossi sued to have certain actions which had taken place during the recount thrown out. He chose where this suit was heard, and as I recall he chose Whitman County (though I may be wrong on that, I do know it was in a Republican district). The court found against him, and in fact awarded the Democrats a few more votes if I recall correctly. And remember, this was Rossi's choice of where he wanted to file suit, it wasnt a Democrat conspiracy.
"a thousand ballots out of King county appeared"
And only slighly less appeared in Pierce country. Which is interesting, because I never heard either Republicans or Democrats complain about the thousands of votes found there.
Honestly, we really can't move past the 2004 election?
If I was Rossi, I too would go to county other than King county to file a lawsuit. He would not get a fair shake in King county because he is a republican. Many votes from King county were invalid and obvious election fraud was present like the example of a registered republican woman who was dead six months rising from the grave and voting democrat. Or how King county allowed felons to vote. Care to explain the election fraud in King county?
Satanic Mechanic, your claims that Rossi would not have gotten a fair trial in King County are baseless. If you would like to I invite you to substantiate them with some facts, otherwise you are doing little more than "rabble-rousing".
Furthermore I encourage you to present proof of your claims of a fradulent election, because neither a Whitman county court, nor the Supreme Court, nor the Secretary of State (who is also a Republican) found enough evidence of election fraud to invalidate the election.
Once again, I would like to ask you (and perhaps get an answer), don't you think its time we move beyond past elections?
Well than so-called truth, you are a bigger fool than I thought, I will allow you to live in your sad fairy-tale utopia of the People's Republic of Washington in which the state is perfect. You have a lot to learn about politics. One of them is that "facts" do not exist in politics or science. I will continue to post about the fraudulent election. Do you think you can keep up?
I seem to recall it was in Wenatchee (Chelan county?) not Whitman county when he went to court. Do you really think Rossi could get an impartial judge in King county?
"You have a lot to learn about politics. One of them is that "facts" do not exist in politics or science."
Perhaps I should redefine facts so that you can understand what I mean then. Studies by professors and others which have done extensive reaserch on the political system. There, can we agree those exist, and for the purpose of this argument can we call them facts, or do you really want to try and nitpick your way out of this discussion?
For example, I can claim that that Rossi held a gun to people's head and forced them to vote for him, and the reason that nobody reported on it was that they were afraid for their life.
Do you see, both are claims, both are baseless and carry an equal amount of weight unless some type of proof is offered to support or refute a certain point. Thus, when I say that a Republican court (I apologize for naming the wrong county) found that the election was fair, and that neither the Supreme Court nor the Secretary of State had any proof which caused them to invalidate the election, it means that there is no credible proof that is should have been invalidated.
And yes, in case you were wondering I believe all courts would have given Rossi and/or Gregoire a fair trial because of the incredible amount of attention on them in nothing else (of course I also tend to believe that the judicial system is nowhere near as political as either party makes it out to be). Of course, what constitutes a "fair" trial is open to interpretaion on a person-by-person basis. For example, I wonder if you would have claimed the trial was biased had it been located in King County yet come to the exact same conclusions as the one held in Wenatchee.
And now for the third time, the all important question, isn't it time to move past a 2-year old election? Really, this isnt a hard question, why its the third time I'll have to ask it is a mystery to me.
I am not nitpicking my way out of this discussion. Justice is certainly not blind and Rossi would not of gotten a fair hearing in the county in question where the mystery ballots were suddenly found. And for the third time, no I will not leave it alone.
"Truth": "And now for the third time, the all important question, isn't it time to move past a 2-year old election? Really, this isnt a hard question, why its the third time I'll have to ask it is a mystery to me."
Feel free to drop the subject and move on at any time, "truth."
Satanic, mysetery ballots were found in almost every county (with the exception of Wahkiakum county), the reason you are complaining is the the most ballots were found in King county. Of course around 31% of the ballots for govenor in the 2004 election were cast in King County (a relationship which was very similar to the number of recount votes found in King county as opposed to the total number of recount votes found).
As for your claim that Rossi wouldn't have gotten a fair trial in King County, I suppose we'll never know because there is no way to test. What we can know is that Rossi lost his trial in Chelan County; a county which went to Rossi 63% to Gregoire's 34%, and which found the same number of ballots for Democrats as it did for Republicans (5 for each candidate).
Realistically, you have no factual ground to stand on. Of course I am perfectly willing to continue debating you on this point, seeing as how I have things like vote and recount totals to back up my point it's all sorts of fun :)
Hey Truthy-boy, Of course I will continue to debate you. Of course you have the ballot counts, same as me. But when King county is democrat controlled, of course mystery ballots will appear. Tell me truth, where abouts in Washington were you born in?
First off (in case my accidental use of the name Chrissy in a different post wasn't clue enough) I'm not a guy, and thus "Truthy-boy" is an innacurate statement.
Second off, I was born in Pierce County. How about you, what's your name and where were you born?
"But when King county is democrat controlled, of course mystery ballots will appear."
Let me show you a little math regarding the number of votes found in the 2 largest counties compared with the total number of votes cast. Out of a total of 899,199 votes cast in King County 1524 of those were found during the recount. Which means that approximatly 0.17% of the votes in King County were from the recount. Lets compare this with the second biggest county, Pierce. Of the 317,012 votes cast in that county 961 of them were from the recount. This means that approximatly 0.30% of the total votes cast were from the recount, almost twice the percentage as from King county.
Now, Just for fun, lets look at the next 2 largest counties, Snohomish and Spokane. In Snohomish there were 474 recount votes out of 297,187 total votes, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.16%. In Spokane County there were 287 recount votes out of 203,886 votes cast, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.14%. So out of the 4 largest counties in Washington, King was right about in the middle in terms of number of votes found compared with total number of votes cast, and in fact in was Pierce who had the worst ratio of "mystery ballots" appearing. The reason King County had more ballots appear is (shocking as this may sound) because there are more people in that county. Why then, not complain about Pierce county, is it because it went to Rossi?
In case you were wondering, the average percentage of recount votes found compared to the number of votes in the county was 0.11%, with numbers ranging from 0.69% - 0%.
Also in case you were wondering, all of my information comes directly from the numbers posted on the Secretary of State's website.
Well truth, Everyone knows that the secretary of state is a RINO to begin with. All the ballots that suddenly turned up in King County during the recounts. I also noticed that King county was always last to turn in their results. Could it be that they were waiting for other counties to turn in their numbers so King County could stack the deck? Gregoire is corrupt just like her party. By the way, I was born outside of Beijing China. I know corruption when I see it.
Wow... you presented exactly zero facts to back up your argument.
And that there is the difference between my argument and yours. Your argument is that Sam Reed is a RINO. In case you were wondering I was wandering around his site looking for the numbers that he used, and he outlined why he didn't invalidate the election, namely because he didn't have the grounds to do it on. And really, what would you have done, declared the results invalid over the rullings of the courts and over the certifications of all of the county auditors?
Furthermore, it is also possible that King County turned in its results last because it had the most votes counted, 582,187 more votes than any other counted to be precise. Don't you think that those votes would take a while to recount? And also, weren't there both Democratic and Republican observers at all of the recount stations the entire time?
Do you have any factual grounds to back your argument up with, or are you simply spouting nonsense and "rabble-rousing"?
Also more for curiosity's sake than anything else, what is your name and when did you move to the Palouse area?
My name is Mao and I have lived here on the Palouse for 12 years. Sorry you are not my type. I do not date pinkos, liberals, communists or hippies.
Gregoire getting away with stealing the election was like Bill Clinton getting away with his infidelity in office. That is factual. Do you support criminals?
"My name is Mao and I have lived here on the Palouse for 12 years. Sorry you are not my type. I do not date pinkos, liberals, communists or hippies."
Ha ha, don't flatter yourself, I simply wanted to know your name so that I could stop addressing you as satanic. Furthermore, there is a difference between this bizarre idea you have in your head of me as a raving liberal, and the reality of me being a tradition conservative.
"Gregoire getting away with stealing the election was like Bill Clinton getting away with his infidelity in office. That is factual."
WHAT!?
First off, the two are completly and totally unrellated, perhaps you could try staying on topic. The fact that you are unable to back your arguments up with anything other than "I'm right and you're wrong" shows that your views are baseless. Furthermore, as I would imagine Paul knows from teaching philosophy, an inability to back up your arguments with facts leaves your position as uncredible as a statement such as this one: "Dino Rossi hates America and is a mass-murdering serial rapist". Do you see, both claims are baseless becuase neither have any factual evidence to back them up. That you say otherwise isn't a credible basis for complaint.
"Do you support criminals?"
No I do not, and whats more is that I know someone is innocent of being a criminal until proven guilty, and your inability to prove Gregoire or King County in any way rigged the election shows that they are both innocent.
Christine Gregoire used legal trickery and lawyers to steal the election. It reminds me a lot of the O.J. Simpson trial. "If the recount don't come out right, stuff the ballot boxes in King county!"
Truth what you cite as votes turning up is incorrect. People are refering to the 500 ballots that appeared out of no where and some more later on. In the maria cantwell Slade Gordon sentate race a similar incident happened and Maria won. Hmm, once can be coinicident and two too, but three is not. something fishy took place end of story. Yes othe counties has ballots show up, but not in these kind of numbers or in regards to the % of the population. In addition, a machine count is way more accurate than a hand count every time. Why people think different is beyond me.
"Christine Gregoire used legal trickery and lawyers to steal the election."
Prove it Mao, and I mean facts not more "rabble-rousing".
"People are refering to the 500 ballots that appeared out of no where and some more later on."
Could you please cite this so that I actually know what you're talking about. Why its so hard for people to back up their opinions here is beyond me.
"Yes othe counties has ballots show up, but not in these kind of numbers or in regards to the % of the population."
Perhaps next time before you talk you could read the previous posts. To make it easy for you however, I will repost what I said earlier:
"Out of a total of 899,199 votes cast in King County 1524 of those were found during the recount. Which means that approximatly 0.17% of the votes in King County were from the recount. Lets compare this with the second biggest county, Pierce. Of the 317,012 votes cast in that county 961 of them were from the recount. This means that approximatly 0.30% of the total votes cast were from the recount, almost twice the percentage as from King county.
Now, Just for fun, lets look at the next 2 largest counties, Snohomish and Spokane. In Snohomish there were 474 recount votes out of 297,187 total votes, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.16%. In Spokane County there were 287 recount votes out of 203,886 votes cast, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.14%. So out of the 4 largest counties in Washington, King was right about in the middle in terms of number of votes found compared with total number of votes cast, and in fact in was Pierce who had the worst ratio of "mystery ballots" appearing...
In case you were wondering, the average percentage of recount votes found compared to the number of votes in the county was 0.11%, with numbers ranging from 0.69% - 0%."
In case you are once again too lazy to read that I will sum it up for you. King County was right about in the middle in terms of the percentage of how many votes were found as compared to how many votes were cast in the county. Of the four largest counties Pierce County actually had the worst ratio (and once again, all these numbers come from the Secretary of State's website, which come directly from the counties, which were certified by the courts). Its not my fault you don't want to believe the facts.
"In addition, a machine count is way more accurate than a hand count every time. Why people think different is beyond me." Rossi won the machine count. Need me to sum that up???
1108 illegal votes who were conted that were issued by felons. They also discovered that 45 dead people voted and 10 people voted twice. The election was decided by 129 votes, so these small and usually immaterial items become material.
The biggest evidence against an inaccurate count in the Governor Race is that military ballots because they “may not have received or been sent their absentee ballots in a timely manner and could have been disenfranchised by the neglect, mistake, or error of election officials” Its common knowledge that the military votes overwhelmingly for Republican candidates, and when military in some cases couldn’t even vote because there ballot was received on election day. Amazingly enough, the largest and most democratic county, King County, sent out their military 2 days after the federal deadline to send out those ballots.
Nov. 12: The state Democratic Party successfully sues King County to get the names of voters whose provisional ballots are in danger of being disqualified. Over Republican protests, Democrats turn in more than 400 signed affidavits from voters to verify their ballots.
Dec. 13: King County announces it has discovered more than 500 ballots that were mistakenly rejected by election workers. By the end of the week the number tops 700.
Hmm see where the fishyness factor starts to play along. No other county found votes like this. They may of had similar hand count changes, but not actual changes to the population of votes allowed.
Then here is my Maria cantwell refrence "That race was very close against Democratic challenger Maria Cantwell. King County elections suddenly "found" another 2,500 ballots at one of the local community colleges that – you guessed it – had previously been "overlooked." Maria Cantwell won the election – thanks to those newly discovered ballots. Slade, who wanted to retire, refused to contest the election."
Any of the things I just said can be found on king5 news website.
So then if there was trully a problem such as you say why didn't any of the courts rule in favor of Rossi? I mean, for the final suit he even got to pick which county he wanted it tried in, and that judge ended up actually giving the Democrats more votes as you may recall.
And really lets look at some of those claims:
"Rossi won the machine count. Need me to sum that up???"
Yes, and then he lost the next recount, which was legal according to the state consitution. While your powers of observation appear to be working in this case, I wonder what it has to do with the debate at hand. The same goes for your Maria Cantwell refrences. Its a seperate issue, a seperate election, and quite frankly it looks like you (being afraid of being proven wrong) are attempting to throw in as many additional issues as possible.
"Democrats turn in more than 400 signed affidavits from voters to verify their ballots."
And thus the ballots were verified...I'm sure the Republicans did similar things. However even if they didnt, the Democrats still fufilled what was needed in order for the provisional ballots to count (as multiple courts have stated).
"King County announces it has discovered more than 500 ballots that were mistakenly rejected by election workers. By the end of the week the number tops 700."
Yes, and so they corrected their mistake. Do you have any way to prove 1) if these ballots were actually illegal and should have been rejected or 2) if the votes even went to Democrats?
"The biggest evidence against an inaccurate count in the Governor Race is that military ballots because they “may not have received or been sent their absentee ballots in a timely manner and could have been disenfranchised by the neglect, mistake, or error of election officials”"
If this were actually cause for complaint don't you think a court, any court, would have found that this invalidated the election? Furthermore, the quote above (while alarming) is very careful to say that the idea they are putting forth is only a possibility, not a proven fact. This is shown by their use of words such as "may" and "could have".
"No other county found votes like this. They may of had similar hand count changes, but not actual changes to the population of votes allowed."
This is just factually incorrect. The only county which did not have the total number of votes change through the second recount was Wahkiakum County. Every single other county saw the total number of votes change between what was reported after the first count, and what was repeated after the second recount. To repeat, every single county besides Wahkiakum had a change in vote totals. For proof go to the following two links:
Truthy is no republican or conservative. Look how fanatically she defends commissar Gregoire. She is to Gregoire as Cochrane was to O.J. She is justifying election fraud.
33 comments:
They should put Commisar Gregoire in jail with the rest of the Washinton state legislature for that budget they just passed.
Hell, most of the 2004 Gregoire votes in King county came from felons and the dead.
Just to throw this out there
It would seem that if want democrats to stop complaining about the 2000 presidential election then you should stop complaining about the 2004 gubernatorial election.
Rabble-rousing as usual truth.
I can complain about the 2004 election all I want. I did not complain about the 2000 election because I did not vote either democrat or republican.
If you would like to complain about elections here in the USA, I know many cases of election fraud through out U.S. history. I you do not like my posts, do not read them.
"I can complain about the 2004 election all I want. I did not complain about the 2000 election because I did not vote either democrat or republican."
I never said you couldn't, just pointing out a possible hypocrisy to everybody here who complains about the 2004 election and then gets upset when people complain about the 2000 election.
As for this "rabble rousing" (defined here as "an instance or the practice of stirring up the passions or prejudices of the public" - dictionary.com), I simply wanted to point out the potential for hypocriscy. A better example of rabble rousing is referring to Christine Gregoire as "The Queen", when no monarchy exists in the State of Washington, or the United States for that matter.
Oh, this is rich. More than one sqare tissue of rich. This may take the entire roll.
1. After all these years, GW won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the left- wingers. Or do you have some other ballots that you have miraculously found?
2. It took found ballots under every bed, in every trunk, weekly and daily discoveries of ballots to "win" Queen Christine her place.
Dems couldn't quite cheat enough in the national election, but on a local level, we were a cake walk. You will also win the state constitutional amendment, requiring a super-majority for school votes. Not surprising, considering that "new voters" can now register and vote at the same time, limiting the time to conduct checks and balances by our local voting board. And God help us if the questionable voters are not white or American. Those of us who question the new voters will be painted as racist or worse. (oops, did I say white? Ten lashes for me!)
Whitman County is too small to fight the complications that the national politicos present. However, face them we must.
"After all these years, GW won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the left- wingers. Or do you have some other ballots that you have miraculously found?"
And after all these years Gregoire has won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the right-wingers.
"It took found ballots under every bed, in every trunk, weekly and daily discoveries of ballots to "win" Queen Christine her place."
And it took a conservative-dominated Supreme Court to stop the recount in Florida.
All I am saying is that there are definetivly similarities between the two elections (as much as neither side wishes to admit it), and it is time for both Democrats and Republicans to let go of past elections.
Oh, and yes, how terrible that people (including Democrats, Republicans, Independents, etc.)can now register and vote at the same time. I mean, why would we want to extend democracy?
Yes! Why not vote as a vistor? Why not vote as a bussed in activist? As a one world government, why not vote as one? Where can I make sure my vote is counted in another "soveriegn" country?
April, I think you know as well as I do that there are you still have to prove you are a resident of where you live (via drivers-licenses) and they do still check the voter registrations. And realistically, do you have any facts to back up your claims that "visitors" and "bussed in activists" will be coming in droves to affect elections, or is it simply more "rabble-rousing"?
But to go back to the main point of this comment thread, don't you think its time to put past elections behind us?
And after all these years Gregoire has won every election recount, no matter who counted, including the right-wingers.
That is incorrect. She won the last recount when out of thin air, a thousand ballots out of King county appeared. Edwards fronted her the money for the recount but when she stole the election, the state gave back the money to Edwards.
Yes, how dare she follow the state constitution and demand the hand recount. I am of course certain that had Rossi lost the 1st recount he would not have demanded a second one.
Both candidates were in the same boat, had the roles been switched they both would have done the same thing.
As proof of that (and as proof that Gregoire did in fact win the election) I offer up this fact. After all the recounts Rossi sued to have certain actions which had taken place during the recount thrown out. He chose where this suit was heard, and as I recall he chose Whitman County (though I may be wrong on that, I do know it was in a Republican district). The court found against him, and in fact awarded the Democrats a few more votes if I recall correctly. And remember, this was Rossi's choice of where he wanted to file suit, it wasnt a Democrat conspiracy.
"a thousand ballots out of King county appeared"
And only slighly less appeared in Pierce country. Which is interesting, because I never heard either Republicans or Democrats complain about the thousands of votes found there.
Honestly, we really can't move past the 2004 election?
This basically equates to the Governor giving Felons a get out of jail free card, doesn't it?
If I was Rossi, I too would go to county other than King county to file a lawsuit. He would not get a fair shake in King county because he is a republican.
Many votes from King county were invalid and obvious election fraud was present like the example of a registered republican woman who was dead six months rising from the grave and voting democrat. Or how King county allowed felons to vote. Care to explain the election fraud in King county?
Satanic Mechanic, your claims that Rossi would not have gotten a fair trial in King County are baseless. If you would like to I invite you to substantiate them with some facts, otherwise you are doing little more than "rabble-rousing".
Furthermore I encourage you to present proof of your claims of a fradulent election, because neither a Whitman county court, nor the Supreme Court, nor the Secretary of State (who is also a Republican) found enough evidence of election fraud to invalidate the election.
Once again, I would like to ask you (and perhaps get an answer), don't you think its time we move beyond past elections?
Well than so-called truth, you are a bigger fool than I thought, I will allow you to live in your sad fairy-tale utopia of the People's Republic of Washington in which the state is perfect.
You have a lot to learn about politics. One of them is that "facts" do not exist in politics or science.
I will continue to post about the fraudulent election. Do you think you can keep up?
I seem to recall it was in Wenatchee (Chelan county?) not Whitman county when he went to court. Do you really think Rossi could get an impartial judge in King county?
"You have a lot to learn about politics. One of them is that "facts" do not exist in politics or science."
Perhaps I should redefine facts so that you can understand what I mean then. Studies by professors and others which have done extensive reaserch on the political system. There, can we agree those exist, and for the purpose of this argument can we call them facts, or do you really want to try and nitpick your way out of this discussion?
For example, I can claim that that Rossi held a gun to people's head and forced them to vote for him, and the reason that nobody reported on it was that they were afraid for their life.
Do you see, both are claims, both are baseless and carry an equal amount of weight unless some type of proof is offered to support or refute a certain point. Thus, when I say that a Republican court (I apologize for naming the wrong county) found that the election was fair, and that neither the Supreme Court nor the Secretary of State had any proof which caused them to invalidate the election, it means that there is no credible proof that is should have been invalidated.
And yes, in case you were wondering I believe all courts would have given Rossi and/or Gregoire a fair trial because of the incredible amount of attention on them in nothing else (of course I also tend to believe that the judicial system is nowhere near as political as either party makes it out to be). Of course, what constitutes a "fair" trial is open to interpretaion on a person-by-person basis. For example, I wonder if you would have claimed the trial was biased had it been located in King County yet come to the exact same conclusions as the one held in Wenatchee.
And now for the third time, the all important question, isn't it time to move past a 2-year old election? Really, this isnt a hard question, why its the third time I'll have to ask it is a mystery to me.
I am not nitpicking my way out of this discussion. Justice is certainly not blind and Rossi would not of gotten a fair hearing in the county in question where the mystery ballots were suddenly found. And for the third time, no I will not leave it alone.
"Truth": "And now for the third time, the all important question, isn't it time to move past a 2-year old election? Really, this isnt a hard question, why its the third time I'll have to ask it is a mystery to me."
Feel free to drop the subject and move on at any time, "truth."
Satanic, mysetery ballots were found in almost every county (with the exception of Wahkiakum county), the reason you are complaining is the the most ballots were found in King county. Of course around 31% of the ballots for govenor in the 2004 election were cast in King County (a relationship which was very similar to the number of recount votes found in King county as opposed to the total number of recount votes found).
As for your claim that Rossi wouldn't have gotten a fair trial in King County, I suppose we'll never know because there is no way to test. What we can know is that Rossi lost his trial in Chelan County; a county which went to Rossi 63% to Gregoire's 34%, and which found the same number of ballots for Democrats as it did for Republicans (5 for each candidate).
Realistically, you have no factual ground to stand on. Of course I am perfectly willing to continue debating you on this point, seeing as how I have things like vote and recount totals to back up my point it's all sorts of fun :)
Tom why did you remove my post???
Hey Truthy-boy,
Of course I will continue to debate you. Of course you have the ballot counts, same as me. But when King county is democrat controlled, of course mystery ballots will appear.
Tell me truth, where abouts in Washington were you born in?
First off (in case my accidental use of the name Chrissy in a different post wasn't clue enough) I'm not a guy, and thus "Truthy-boy" is an innacurate statement.
Second off, I was born in Pierce County. How about you, what's your name and where were you born?
"But when King county is democrat controlled, of course mystery ballots will appear."
Let me show you a little math regarding the number of votes found in the 2 largest counties compared with the total number of votes cast. Out of a total of 899,199 votes cast in King County 1524 of those were found during the recount. Which means that approximatly 0.17% of the votes in King County were from the recount. Lets compare this with the second biggest county, Pierce. Of the 317,012 votes cast in that county 961 of them were from the recount. This means that approximatly 0.30% of the total votes cast were from the recount, almost twice the percentage as from King county.
Now, Just for fun, lets look at the next 2 largest counties, Snohomish and Spokane. In Snohomish there were 474 recount votes out of 297,187 total votes, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.16%. In Spokane County there were 287 recount votes out of 203,886 votes cast, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.14%. So out of the 4 largest counties in Washington, King was right about in the middle in terms of number of votes found compared with total number of votes cast, and in fact in was Pierce who had the worst ratio of "mystery ballots" appearing. The reason King County had more ballots appear is (shocking as this may sound) because there are more people in that county. Why then, not complain about Pierce county, is it because it went to Rossi?
In case you were wondering, the average percentage of recount votes found compared to the number of votes in the county was 0.11%, with numbers ranging from 0.69% - 0%.
Also in case you were wondering, all of my information comes directly from the numbers posted on the Secretary of State's website.
Well truth,
Everyone knows that the secretary of state is a RINO to begin with. All the ballots that suddenly turned up in King County during the recounts. I also noticed that King county was always last to turn in their results. Could it be that they were waiting for other counties to turn in their numbers so King County could stack the deck? Gregoire is corrupt just like her party.
By the way, I was born outside of Beijing China. I know corruption when I see it.
Wow... you presented exactly zero facts to back up your argument.
And that there is the difference between my argument and yours. Your argument is that Sam Reed is a RINO. In case you were wondering I was wandering around his site looking for the numbers that he used, and he outlined why he didn't invalidate the election, namely because he didn't have the grounds to do it on. And really, what would you have done, declared the results invalid over the rullings of the courts and over the certifications of all of the county auditors?
Furthermore, it is also possible that King County turned in its results last because it had the most votes counted, 582,187 more votes than any other counted to be precise. Don't you think that those votes would take a while to recount? And also, weren't there both Democratic and Republican observers at all of the recount stations the entire time?
Do you have any factual grounds to back your argument up with, or are you simply spouting nonsense and "rabble-rousing"?
Also more for curiosity's sake than anything else, what is your name and when did you move to the Palouse area?
My name is Mao and I have lived here on the Palouse for 12 years. Sorry you are not my type. I do not date pinkos, liberals, communists or hippies.
Gregoire getting away with stealing the election was like Bill Clinton getting away with his infidelity in office. That is factual. Do you support criminals?
"My name is Mao and I have lived here on the Palouse for 12 years. Sorry you are not my type. I do not date pinkos, liberals, communists or hippies."
Ha ha, don't flatter yourself, I simply wanted to know your name so that I could stop addressing you as satanic. Furthermore, there is a difference between this bizarre idea you have in your head of me as a raving liberal, and the reality of me being a tradition conservative.
"Gregoire getting away with stealing the election was like Bill Clinton getting away with his infidelity in office. That is factual."
WHAT!?
First off, the two are completly and totally unrellated, perhaps you could try staying on topic. The fact that you are unable to back your arguments up with anything other than "I'm right and you're wrong" shows that your views are baseless. Furthermore, as I would imagine Paul knows from teaching philosophy, an inability to back up your arguments with facts leaves your position as uncredible as a statement such as this one: "Dino Rossi hates America and is a mass-murdering serial rapist". Do you see, both claims are baseless becuase neither have any factual evidence to back them up. That you say otherwise isn't a credible basis for complaint.
"Do you support criminals?"
No I do not, and whats more is that I know someone is innocent of being a criminal until proven guilty, and your inability to prove Gregoire or King County in any way rigged the election shows that they are both innocent.
Christine Gregoire used legal trickery and lawyers to steal the election. It reminds me a lot of the O.J. Simpson trial.
"If the recount don't come out right, stuff the ballot boxes in King county!"
SM
Truth what you cite as votes turning up is incorrect. People are refering to the 500 ballots that appeared out of no where and some more later on. In the maria cantwell Slade Gordon sentate race a similar incident happened and Maria won. Hmm, once can be coinicident and two too, but three is not. something fishy took place end of story. Yes othe counties has ballots show up, but not in these kind of numbers or in regards to the % of the population. In addition, a machine count is way more accurate than a hand count every time. Why people think different is beyond me.
"Christine Gregoire used legal trickery and lawyers to steal the election."
Prove it Mao, and I mean facts not more "rabble-rousing".
"People are refering to the 500 ballots that appeared out of no where and some more later on."
Could you please cite this so that I actually know what you're talking about. Why its so hard for people to back up their opinions here is beyond me.
"Yes othe counties has ballots show up, but not in these kind of numbers or in regards to the % of the population."
Perhaps next time before you talk you could read the previous posts. To make it easy for you however, I will repost what I said earlier:
"Out of a total of 899,199 votes cast in King County 1524 of those were found during the recount. Which means that approximatly 0.17% of the votes in King County were from the recount. Lets compare this with the second biggest county, Pierce. Of the 317,012 votes cast in that county 961 of them were from the recount. This means that approximatly 0.30% of the total votes cast were from the recount, almost twice the percentage as from King county.
Now, Just for fun, lets look at the next 2 largest counties, Snohomish and Spokane. In Snohomish there were 474 recount votes out of 297,187 total votes, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.16%. In Spokane County there were 287 recount votes out of 203,886 votes cast, giving them a percentage of approximatly 0.14%. So out of the 4 largest counties in Washington, King was right about in the middle in terms of number of votes found compared with total number of votes cast, and in fact in was Pierce who had the worst ratio of "mystery ballots" appearing...
In case you were wondering, the average percentage of recount votes found compared to the number of votes in the county was 0.11%, with numbers ranging from 0.69% - 0%."
In case you are once again too lazy to read that I will sum it up for you. King County was right about in the middle in terms of the percentage of how many votes were found as compared to how many votes were cast in the county. Of the four largest counties Pierce County actually had the worst ratio (and once again, all these numbers come from the Secretary of State's website, which come directly from the counties, which were certified by the courts). Its not my fault you don't want to believe the facts.
"In addition, a machine count is way more accurate than a hand count every time. Why people think different is beyond me." Rossi won the machine count. Need me to sum that up???
1108 illegal votes who were conted that were issued by felons. They also discovered that 45 dead people voted and 10 people voted twice. The election was decided by 129 votes, so these small and usually immaterial items become material.
The biggest evidence against an inaccurate count in the Governor Race is that military ballots because they “may not have received or been sent their absentee ballots in a timely manner and could have been disenfranchised by the neglect, mistake, or error of election officials” Its common knowledge that the military votes overwhelmingly for Republican candidates, and when military in some cases couldn’t even vote because there ballot was received on election day. Amazingly enough, the largest and most democratic county, King County, sent out their military 2 days after the federal deadline to send out those ballots.
Nov. 12: The state Democratic Party successfully sues King County to get the names of voters whose provisional ballots are in danger of being disqualified. Over Republican protests, Democrats turn in more than 400 signed affidavits from voters to verify their ballots.
Dec. 13: King County announces it has discovered more than 500 ballots that were mistakenly rejected by election workers. By the end of the week the number tops 700.
Hmm see where the fishyness factor starts to play along. No other county found votes like this. They may of had similar hand count changes, but not actual changes to the population of votes allowed.
Then here is my Maria cantwell refrence
"That race was very close against Democratic challenger Maria Cantwell. King County elections suddenly "found" another 2,500 ballots at one of the local community colleges that – you guessed it – had previously been "overlooked." Maria Cantwell won the election – thanks to those newly discovered ballots. Slade, who wanted to retire, refused to contest the election."
Any of the things I just said can be found on king5 news website.
So then if there was trully a problem such as you say why didn't any of the courts rule in favor of Rossi? I mean, for the final suit he even got to pick which county he wanted it tried in, and that judge ended up actually giving the Democrats more votes as you may recall.
And really lets look at some of those claims:
"Rossi won the machine count. Need me to sum that up???"
Yes, and then he lost the next recount, which was legal according to the state consitution. While your powers of observation appear to be working in this case, I wonder what it has to do with the debate at hand. The same goes for your Maria Cantwell refrences. Its a seperate issue, a seperate election, and quite frankly it looks like you (being afraid of being proven wrong) are attempting to throw in as many additional issues as possible.
"Democrats turn in more than 400 signed affidavits from voters to verify their ballots."
And thus the ballots were verified...I'm sure the Republicans did similar things. However even if they didnt, the Democrats still fufilled what was needed in order for the provisional ballots to count (as multiple courts have stated).
"King County announces it has discovered more than 500 ballots that were mistakenly rejected by election workers. By the end of the week the number tops 700."
Yes, and so they corrected their mistake. Do you have any way to prove 1) if these ballots were actually illegal and should have been rejected or 2) if the votes even went to Democrats?
"The biggest evidence against an inaccurate count in the Governor Race is that military ballots because they “may not have received or been sent their absentee ballots in a timely manner and could have been disenfranchised by the neglect, mistake, or error of election officials”"
If this were actually cause for complaint don't you think a court, any court, would have found that this invalidated the election? Furthermore, the quote above (while alarming) is very careful to say that the idea they are putting forth is only a possibility, not a proven fact. This is shown by their use of words such as "may" and "could have".
"No other county found votes like this. They may of had similar hand count changes, but not actual changes to the population of votes allowed."
This is just factually incorrect. The only county which did not have the total number of votes change through the second recount was Wahkiakum County. Every single other county saw the total number of votes change between what was reported after the first count, and what was repeated after the second recount. To repeat, every single county besides Wahkiakum had a change in vote totals. For proof go to the following two links:
http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/Results/ResultsByCounty.aspx?e=a3501711-c318-45f4-8a03-1d926ac839b7&j=a1c5db0b-5cf2-4016-abe9-b5dfdb0f4fec&o=0ce94bb9-8001-4bdb-b328-ba1807ce49c2
http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/Results/ResultsByCounty.aspx?e=fe7e6b45-e39d-4959-95c7-9e27cf6e0b59&j=a1c5db0b-5cf2-4016-abe9-b5dfdb0f4fec&o=a8327ef7-2f99-40a3-85c9-ef641023cc0f
Truthy is no republican or conservative. Look how fanatically she defends commissar Gregoire. She is to Gregoire as Cochrane was to O.J.
She is justifying election fraud.
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